001 Post Show: George Carlin' Documentary Pt. 1

1
00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:05,960
Hey there, documentary lovers. Welcome to the podcast. I'm Melanee Dark, here with my

2
00:00:05,960 --> 00:00:11,440
co-host Jim Hudson. And this is Podumentary, a show where we deep dive, dig into and unpack

3
00:00:11,440 --> 00:00:14,400
the details of a documentary in glorious detail.

4
00:00:14,400 --> 00:00:19,480
But first since this is our inaugural episode, let's give you guys some quick background

5
00:00:19,480 --> 00:00:24,000
on us. I'm going to start with me and how this podcast idea got started. So I have a

6
00:00:24,000 --> 00:00:28,980
professional background that feels like it's led to this moment, actually. First, working

7
00:00:28,980 --> 00:00:33,560
in the entertainment industry as a post-production supervisor, then I pivoted into voice acting

8
00:00:33,560 --> 00:00:38,000
for three years. And then ultimately I left the industry altogether for a while to become

9
00:00:38,000 --> 00:00:42,120
a social media and digital strategist. I did that about 12 years ago. I'm obviously nuts

10
00:00:42,120 --> 00:00:48,160
about documentaries. And then back in 2016, fell madly in love with a specific kind of

11
00:00:48,160 --> 00:00:54,200
podcast, a recap podcast. Jim, have you ever listened to a recap podcast?

12
00:00:54,200 --> 00:00:57,160
Yes, I have this time.

13
00:00:57,160 --> 00:00:59,240
I didn't know what that was.

14
00:00:59,240 --> 00:01:04,040
For those of you like Jim that don't know what a recap podcast is, essentially, usually

15
00:01:04,040 --> 00:01:08,760
it surrounds a show that everyone's a big fan of. In this case, where I fell in love,

16
00:01:08,760 --> 00:01:13,360
it was the Game of Thrones and the podcast called A Cast of Kings with David Chen and

17
00:01:13,360 --> 00:01:17,720
Joanna Robinson. And in each episode of the podcast, they take a deep dive into the most

18
00:01:17,720 --> 00:01:21,880
recent episode that week. And I really loved that. I loved listening to them pull it apart

19
00:01:21,880 --> 00:01:26,200
and really talk about what they thought it meant and make predictions, et cetera. And

20
00:01:26,200 --> 00:01:30,800
so I went looking in iTunes for a podcast that recaps documentaries in the same way

21
00:01:30,800 --> 00:01:35,760
and came up empty, which shocked me honestly, because typically you look up any topic in

22
00:01:35,760 --> 00:01:39,080
the podcast platforms and you find about half a dozen podcasts covering it. Right. It's

23
00:01:39,080 --> 00:01:43,600
so saturated, especially now. So at first I was really bummed out. And then I thought,

24
00:01:43,600 --> 00:01:47,280
wait, why don't I do it? So here we are. I dragged Jim in.

25
00:01:47,280 --> 00:01:54,120
Yeah, I'm shocked by that as well, because even though I'm a video game producer by trade,

26
00:01:54,120 --> 00:01:58,880
I've always loved documentaries. I can watch them from sun up to sun down and fall asleep

27
00:01:58,880 --> 00:02:05,440
to them and watch them in my sleep. Reflecting back on my first love of documentaries, I

28
00:02:05,440 --> 00:02:11,480
remember watching a old JFK assassination documentary. I tried to find the title, but

29
00:02:11,480 --> 00:02:15,160
I failed. I thought it was called Six Seconds to Kill, but I don't think it is because it's

30
00:02:15,160 --> 00:02:23,920
nowhere on the Internet. But I was hooked. And ever since then, I watched pretty much

31
00:02:23,920 --> 00:02:28,960
any documentary. But the ones that really excite me are the ones that took place in

32
00:02:28,960 --> 00:02:34,040
the past that not everybody really heard about. You remember hearing about it and then going,

33
00:02:34,040 --> 00:02:38,200
man, whatever happened with that? And then there's a documentary about it. I devour those.

34
00:02:38,200 --> 00:02:42,840
For example, I remember Z Channel when that was out in the early 80s and I was just a

35
00:02:42,840 --> 00:02:47,160
little kid. I did not have it, but some of my friends did because I grew up in a nicer

36
00:02:47,160 --> 00:02:52,260
area. And then the pizza bomber. I was wondering, whatever happened to that guy? There's a documentary

37
00:02:52,260 --> 00:03:00,240
about that that I hope to cover at some point. But I remember really becoming a documentary

38
00:03:00,240 --> 00:03:05,680
addict in the 90s when PBS put out the American president's documentary. I got really hooked

39
00:03:05,680 --> 00:03:15,120
on LBJ and Nixon. And then Nixon, who I'm a perverse fan of, took me down the rat hole

40
00:03:15,120 --> 00:03:20,560
of Watergate. And there is no Watergate documentary that I won't watch. Even though I don't learn

41
00:03:20,560 --> 00:03:23,640
much anymore, I think I've figured that one out.

42
00:03:23,640 --> 00:03:25,000
You've reached saturation.

43
00:03:25,000 --> 00:03:32,280
But to say really the only bad documentary are the ones that used reenactments poorly

44
00:03:32,280 --> 00:03:37,320
with poor acting, poor script. Yeah. Yeah. It's not the actor's fault. It's the writer's

45
00:03:37,320 --> 00:03:39,080
fault in my opinion and the director's.

46
00:03:39,080 --> 00:03:43,840
I wish I could remember my first documentary. I can't. I think that I understood that I

47
00:03:43,840 --> 00:03:53,280
was really taken by the form when someone gave me the Ken Burns baseball series documentary

48
00:03:53,280 --> 00:04:00,120
and I watched all 22 hours. Obviously not in one sitting, but over those days I just

49
00:04:00,120 --> 00:04:06,560
binged it and I wasn't even really and I'm not and please don't write in and attack me.

50
00:04:06,560 --> 00:04:11,840
I very much enjoy baseball, but I wouldn't consider myself some sort of rabid fan. But

51
00:04:11,840 --> 00:04:17,400
I think that my favorite genre is the examination of people. Anything that examines people and

52
00:04:17,400 --> 00:04:22,240
what led to who they became both publicly, but probably more interestingly privately.

53
00:04:22,240 --> 00:04:26,400
We're all just such complex, messy creatures, but the older I get and the more I'm exposed

54
00:04:26,400 --> 00:04:30,440
to other people's stories, you know, this through documentaries and otherwise, it just

55
00:04:30,440 --> 00:04:35,600
seems like there's this distinct set of experiences and circumstances, trauma, losses, what have

56
00:04:35,600 --> 00:04:41,240
you that form us into what we become by virtue of how we've had to react to, you know, to

57
00:04:41,240 --> 00:04:45,760
survive what came our way. And that just fascinates me. So which is why I'm so excited about the

58
00:04:45,760 --> 00:04:49,360
first documentary we're going to be taking a deep dive into today. The Emmy nominated

59
00:04:49,360 --> 00:04:54,400
George Carlin's American Dream. It's a two part doc about the incomparable comedian from

60
00:04:54,400 --> 00:05:00,760
HBO by co-directors Michael Bonfiglio and Judd Apatow. He also, the two of them also

61
00:05:00,760 --> 00:05:05,880
exec produced alongside George Carlin's daughter, Kelly Carlin and Carlin's longtime manager,

62
00:05:05,880 --> 00:05:11,120
Jerry Hamza. Apatow and Bonfiglio do such a beautiful job getting below the public

63
00:05:11,120 --> 00:05:16,320
persona. You know, they did Gary Shandling's, the Zen Diaries of Gary Shandling. They did

64
00:05:16,320 --> 00:05:21,880
The Great Depression with Gary Goldman, which I also hope to cover. And they just really

65
00:05:21,880 --> 00:05:26,800
do a great job getting below the public persona to reveal the sort of private person and what

66
00:05:26,800 --> 00:05:30,120
went into making that private person. And they've done that so well here. So let's get into

67
00:05:30,120 --> 00:05:38,800
it. George Carlin, he was never not in the discussion of greatest comedian ever. Smart.

68
00:05:38,800 --> 00:05:42,400
George is the smartest. Smartest man I've ever met. You watch George Carlin bit, you

69
00:05:42,400 --> 00:05:49,320
know he's not riffing. He was genius at making you laugh and changing your mind. He was an

70
00:05:49,320 --> 00:05:54,960
avatar for anti-corruption. Like a truth machine. My worldview was really shaped by Carlin.

71
00:05:54,960 --> 00:06:01,040
He found injustice offensive. Kind of like a biblical prophet. I want to say something.

72
00:06:01,040 --> 00:06:11,160
He was so funny. Why did I like him? He was so fucking funny. Okay, so this documentary,

73
00:06:11,160 --> 00:06:17,040
it starts out with a montage. You know, I guess it's, you know, the blessing of telling

74
00:06:17,040 --> 00:06:20,860
the story of someone famous is you have a lot of archival footage. And this is a montage

75
00:06:20,860 --> 00:06:25,840
of archival footage that, you know, where George is just riffing on rants and all of

76
00:06:25,840 --> 00:06:30,020
the topics that typify what mattered to him, what he was passionate about. This montage

77
00:06:30,020 --> 00:06:36,040
of clips, interchanged with some commentary from comedians today. Specifically though,

78
00:06:36,040 --> 00:06:42,240
what stood out for me, W. Kamau Bell, you know, mentioning how he sees Carlin as having

79
00:06:42,240 --> 00:06:47,880
changed comedy like three or four times in his career and yet still seems to be relevant,

80
00:06:47,880 --> 00:06:50,960
still seems to be talking to us about the times even though he's been gone for a lot

81
00:06:50,960 --> 00:06:54,880
of years now. And that was sort of one of the main takeaways for me is the way that

82
00:06:54,880 --> 00:07:00,640
comedians revere him and see him as a changemaker in that space. What were your thoughts as

83
00:07:00,640 --> 00:07:01,640
it opened?

84
00:07:01,640 --> 00:07:08,920
Yeah, just my relationship with George Carlin. Much to the chagrin of some of my more enlightened

85
00:07:08,920 --> 00:07:17,000
friends, I was never a big George Carlin fan, to be honest. I don't know why that is. So

86
00:07:17,000 --> 00:07:21,920
when I sat, if I was not a part of this podcast, I don't even know if I'd watch this one.

87
00:07:21,920 --> 00:07:22,920
Gotcha.

88
00:07:22,920 --> 00:07:27,880
But because I am, I sat down and I go, well, this one's going to be a little more informational

89
00:07:27,880 --> 00:07:32,160
for me because I really don't know a whole lot about George Carlin. In fact, the only

90
00:07:32,160 --> 00:07:37,800
thing I remember about George Carlin really was Dr. Demento would play this get a his

91
00:07:37,800 --> 00:07:43,280
called Icebox Man that both me and I believe my sister would listen to and think was really

92
00:07:43,280 --> 00:07:47,320
funny because it was. But I never really dive deeper past that.

93
00:07:47,320 --> 00:07:52,440
So let's start talking about where it begins with his childhood naturally. One of the things

94
00:07:52,440 --> 00:07:59,600
that struck me is it starts off, you know, this documentary was made intercut with not

95
00:07:59,600 --> 00:08:05,680
only what we've seen of George Carlin in the public space, but Kelly Carlin had a lot of

96
00:08:05,680 --> 00:08:10,560
recordings of him, audio recordings. And so we're we benefit from the fact that he had

97
00:08:10,560 --> 00:08:15,160
recorded himself reflecting on his own career and his own history and his own past. And

98
00:08:15,160 --> 00:08:18,800
so he begins, you know, talking about his childhood. And I thought it was interesting

99
00:08:18,800 --> 00:08:22,640
in fifth grade. I mean, think about where you were in fifth grade. He predicted his

100
00:08:22,640 --> 00:08:28,960
future. He wrote down that he was going to be a DJ comedian, actor, big success and literally

101
00:08:28,960 --> 00:08:35,240
ticked every one of those boxes at some point, which fascinates me. But what are you a 10?

102
00:08:35,240 --> 00:08:40,720
You're 10 years old in fifth grade. That's wild. That level of self awareness and intentionality

103
00:08:40,720 --> 00:08:47,480
at that point. And then, you know, it sort of then tells the story of his parents. And

104
00:08:47,480 --> 00:08:51,000
this is this goes back to what I was talking about earlier about the things that go into

105
00:08:51,000 --> 00:08:56,360
what build us into the person that we become. His father was older. He's an older guy and

106
00:08:56,360 --> 00:09:03,560
had drinking issues and apparently had drinking issues prior to meeting his mother. But when

107
00:09:03,560 --> 00:09:09,640
he wasn't drunk, they said that he was really charming and a natural comedian and won a

108
00:09:09,640 --> 00:09:15,600
National Dale Carnegie Speakers contest above 600 other entrance. So you can get the sense

109
00:09:15,600 --> 00:09:19,760
that like this guy was a real sort of two sides of a coin, the two very different sides

110
00:09:19,760 --> 00:09:24,160
of a coin. Yeah, I think it was it his wife, George's mom that called him a street angel

111
00:09:24,160 --> 00:09:29,440
and house devil. Street angel house devil. That's never good, especially if you're a

112
00:09:29,440 --> 00:09:35,520
kid or a spouse, I suppose. And he does give his mother a compliment here. He says that

113
00:09:35,520 --> 00:09:42,440
she could tell stories, do characters, voices, etc. And I kind of put the timeline together.

114
00:09:42,440 --> 00:09:48,160
It looks like I actually went and I'm listening to Kelly Carlin's book right now. And some

115
00:09:48,160 --> 00:09:54,840
of what wasn't in the doc here is just that actually she his mother repeatedly left the

116
00:09:54,840 --> 00:10:01,620
father and and then kept going back to him. One of those times that she she went back

117
00:10:01,620 --> 00:10:07,000
to him, she got pregnant with George. So they were together when George was born. She fled.

118
00:10:07,000 --> 00:10:13,160
He was eight weeks old when he when she climbed out the window with his brother, Patrick,

119
00:10:13,160 --> 00:10:17,080
which I was like, wow, I can't do that now. And I haven't given birth, but I can't make

120
00:10:17,080 --> 00:10:24,400
it out the window. I'd be stuck. And then basically they fled. I think you might have

121
00:10:24,400 --> 00:10:29,000
this in your notes. They fled to I think her brother, George's uncle or something. And

122
00:10:29,000 --> 00:10:35,900
then he talks about she fled because he had the father had attempted or had rather threatened

123
00:10:35,900 --> 00:10:41,080
to kill her and she had to go into hiding and that they were vagabonds until George

124
00:10:41,080 --> 00:10:46,600
is about three years old. Yeah, I'd even said in the divorce papers that she had to leave

125
00:10:46,600 --> 00:10:54,240
because she didn't want her ex husband to beat on her second son like he did on the

126
00:10:54,240 --> 00:10:59,280
first. Right. That's a sad commentary. That's pretty brutal. And that goes into the legal

127
00:10:59,280 --> 00:11:04,800
papers. And it looks like there are about five, six years between the two of them. So

128
00:11:04,800 --> 00:11:12,200
the his older brother was about five or six when they went out the window. I don't know.

129
00:11:12,200 --> 00:11:20,640
Did you have any specific thoughts on that? No, other than it seems that alcohol is a

130
00:11:20,640 --> 00:11:28,480
problem in our society. Yeah, every, every most biography documentaries have a drunken

131
00:11:28,480 --> 00:11:33,400
father, someone drunk, emotionally neglectful parent. Yeah, I think that there's a real

132
00:11:33,400 --> 00:11:38,640
theme and you and I we're going to cover the Zen diaries of Gary Shanley in a couple of

133
00:11:38,640 --> 00:11:45,320
episodes. And so there are some parallels here to, you know, I noticed in in comedians,

134
00:11:45,320 --> 00:11:53,240
you tend to see similar reactions to these childhood circumstances, either of substance

135
00:11:53,240 --> 00:11:58,400
abuse of early loss. In Gary Shanley's case, his father or his brother died when he was

136
00:11:58,400 --> 00:12:03,440
really young. And in George's case, he has an absent father, but also a father who died

137
00:12:03,440 --> 00:12:09,120
when he was eight. So you lose the opportunity to make anything out of that. Yeah. And he

138
00:12:09,120 --> 00:12:16,040
dropped dead of a heart attack. He had heart disease. And clearly that's a hereditary problem.

139
00:12:16,040 --> 00:12:24,000
Right. But George doesn't take caution in that, as we learn later on. He doesn't. A

140
00:12:24,000 --> 00:12:27,960
little foreshadowing there. And I wonder if you relate to this. I really related to this

141
00:12:27,960 --> 00:12:33,560
part. So he goes on to talk about how because now his they went in, they got their own house.

142
00:12:33,560 --> 00:12:38,040
Ultimately, she was able to sort of pick herself up by her bootstraps, his mother. And then

143
00:12:38,040 --> 00:12:46,280
he describes being a latchkey kid. And she had to work. And so he had to let himself

144
00:12:46,280 --> 00:12:52,080
in after school and make his food. And then he reflects and comments on not feeling lonely,

145
00:12:52,080 --> 00:12:58,980
you know, on actually enjoying and thriving on solitude, you know. And I really relate

146
00:12:58,980 --> 00:13:04,840
to that. I was a latchkey kid in those Gen X years. I absolutely took myself home. I had

147
00:13:04,840 --> 00:13:10,760
a key around my neck. I made myself food. I watched every single day I got home and

148
00:13:10,760 --> 00:13:17,760
watched the Gong show and and Hollywood Squares. And so I and I was thrilled. Like I loved

149
00:13:17,760 --> 00:13:22,840
to be by myself and still continue to the state of really love my alone time. And so

150
00:13:22,840 --> 00:13:28,480
I really related to that. And I wondered if it also if you have early circumstances of

151
00:13:28,480 --> 00:13:33,440
a lot of tumult and strain, I wonder if you do sort of trend toward liking time to yourself

152
00:13:33,440 --> 00:13:39,000
because it's a guaranteed calm. You didn't watch any Sid and Marnie Croft, little Lidsville,

153
00:13:39,000 --> 00:13:46,520
little HR. Yeah, I was lucky not to be a latchkey kid. I would have starved to death. I didn't

154
00:13:46,520 --> 00:13:50,000
even know how to open the fridge. I mean, I have a specific memory. You got to love

155
00:13:50,000 --> 00:13:54,000
the 70s and just sort of parenting in the 70s. It's so different. I mean, obviously

156
00:13:54,000 --> 00:13:59,920
not for everybody. But my mom called home one night because she was going to be late

157
00:13:59,920 --> 00:14:07,080
and talked to me through making spaghetti, including like frying up or whatever, sauteing

158
00:14:07,080 --> 00:14:12,400
up the ground beef. And I was six. Yikes. I still can't do that. And she I got in trouble

159
00:14:12,400 --> 00:14:18,720
because I I didn't boil the water and then put in the pasta. I put in the pasta and then

160
00:14:18,720 --> 00:14:25,640
boiled the water. And let me tell you what happens. It's just mush. Yeah. Anyway, he

161
00:14:25,640 --> 00:14:32,720
sort of starts here by touching on how this that entertainers were his family. Right.

162
00:14:32,720 --> 00:14:36,720
And that he he was really attracted to comedians on the radio. He wanted to be like Danny Kay,

163
00:14:36,720 --> 00:14:43,400
Bob Hope, Red Skelton, you know, that he he evolved as a class clown. For me, it was Chuck

164
00:14:43,400 --> 00:14:49,640
Barris, like I said, or Paul Linde. I mean, I was just I remember thinking and I wondered

165
00:14:49,640 --> 00:14:56,080
about you. I remember I didn't really have anybody funny in my family. And so seeing

166
00:14:56,080 --> 00:15:00,920
these people on television was a real like revelation for me, where I thought, oh, like,

167
00:15:00,920 --> 00:15:06,400
here are these funny people. I was so drawn to them and felt so connected to them. And

168
00:15:06,400 --> 00:15:11,440
I wondered if you like his early people were Danny Kay, Bob Hope, Red Skelton sort of cut

169
00:15:11,440 --> 00:15:16,000
ups. I wondered if you had anybody that you sort of like noticed when you were young and

170
00:15:16,000 --> 00:15:20,720
felt that like, oh, like light bulb kind of thing.

171
00:15:20,720 --> 00:15:27,840
My father, despite being a small, statured man, was pretty much a big personality in

172
00:15:27,840 --> 00:15:33,440
the household. He was domineering and what he said went and he had a pretty decent sense

173
00:15:33,440 --> 00:15:41,080
of humor. Yeah, it wasn't really apropos a lot of the times. But so no, I didn't I wasn't

174
00:15:41,080 --> 00:15:51,120
looking for comedy. I think I've used my sense of humor as a way to get where I am. So no,

175
00:15:51,120 --> 00:15:56,960
not any not even offhand, except maybe my father. Yeah, I knew your dad. He was a he

176
00:15:56,960 --> 00:16:02,240
was funny and entertaining and a definite big personality for sure. Well, so religion,

177
00:16:02,240 --> 00:16:06,920
he talks about that as his first big betrayal, which I think is really interesting because

178
00:16:06,920 --> 00:16:12,200
that that became a through line for him, right. And he really never left that perspective.

179
00:16:12,200 --> 00:16:16,660
He talks about how first communion at seven years old, which I think is actually pretty

180
00:16:16,660 --> 00:16:21,520
young to have some sort of astute revelation about your relationship to something as major

181
00:16:21,520 --> 00:16:26,420
as religion, where he said, you know, they told him that he would get his first communion

182
00:16:26,420 --> 00:16:32,040
and that they said that I'd feel God's presence and the state of grace and I didn't. And so

183
00:16:32,040 --> 00:16:41,720
he felt lied to and then decided to be suspect of really any authority, which is pretty empowering,

184
00:16:41,720 --> 00:16:48,120
you know, in second grade. Right. I was still trying to figure out how to open the refrigerator

185
00:16:48,120 --> 00:16:56,720
in second grade. Okay, so here's another theme, Jim, that I think we've seen in other documentaries

186
00:16:56,720 --> 00:17:02,540
and certainly maybe in our own lives. I'm not speaking to me personally, necessarily,

187
00:17:02,540 --> 00:17:06,720
just generally, you know, people we know. And that is he mentions that his mother is

188
00:17:06,720 --> 00:17:10,480
a controlling narcissist. And he's not the only one that says that, right. His older

189
00:17:10,480 --> 00:17:17,000
brother is also pretty much on the table about saying the same thing about Mary. Right. Not

190
00:17:17,000 --> 00:17:25,840
the only judge, Apatow, documentary that talks about a centric mother foreshadowing. You're

191
00:17:25,840 --> 00:17:32,080
right. You're right. The Gary Shanley story is really shaped by who his mother was and

192
00:17:32,080 --> 00:17:36,120
really who she wasn't. And, you know, if we stay along in this comedian theme, I mean,

193
00:17:36,120 --> 00:17:44,280
I'm really comedians are endlessly fascinating to me for reasons of bias, you know, and otherwise.

194
00:17:44,280 --> 00:17:50,640
And Johnny Carson, similar. If you watch any sort of story about Johnny Carson and his

195
00:17:50,640 --> 00:17:58,120
mom and his relationship to his mom, just unyieldingly disapproving and so like impossible

196
00:17:58,120 --> 00:18:04,920
to get that brand of love you're looking for from that person. And it really just while

197
00:18:04,920 --> 00:18:11,480
wounding seems to create people who just need to explode onto the world as a as a reaction

198
00:18:11,480 --> 00:18:19,060
to that, you know. And so George Carlin is no no exception. And he says, I had a mother

199
00:18:19,060 --> 00:18:24,040
who tried to control my life. That's what repelled me from her and that she was a drama

200
00:18:24,040 --> 00:18:29,000
queen and a narcissist. And I wonder what you thought about this. The brother, his brother

201
00:18:29,000 --> 00:18:34,700
Peter talks about, you know, going back to what you said, she was a he was a house devil.

202
00:18:34,700 --> 00:18:41,040
The dad was a house devil and a street angel that she told her sons that like that that

203
00:18:41,040 --> 00:18:47,480
everything else was bad except the sex. Right. Like who's telling your kids? Right. I thought

204
00:18:47,480 --> 00:18:53,840
he was good in the bedroom, but not anywhere else. It's like, oh, God. Yeah. Nobody wants

205
00:18:53,840 --> 00:18:58,520
that Intel. I never had that conversation with my mom. Thank God. And then he flees

206
00:18:58,520 --> 00:19:06,840
her by joining the Air Force. Yeah. It's 17. And I wanted to stay home because of my mom.

207
00:19:06,840 --> 00:19:12,640
He fled because of mom. But we both had the same thing. He sent his brother a note saying,

208
00:19:12,640 --> 00:19:18,640
if you're ever sad, this will cheer you up. And it was a picture of his father's gravestone.

209
00:19:18,640 --> 00:19:23,200
I think I'm going to follow that suit. I mean, honestly, you can see that sense of sense

210
00:19:23,200 --> 00:19:28,680
of humor really early. And and I really, I really took it a little layer deeper, too,

211
00:19:28,680 --> 00:19:35,740
because I thought this is a guy who who does not enjoy authority and yet the power of not

212
00:19:35,740 --> 00:19:42,080
enjoying his mother. Oh, like supersedes his lack of wanting to deal with any kind of authority

213
00:19:42,080 --> 00:19:46,200
because joining the military is ultimately capitulating to authority. That's true. Like

214
00:19:46,200 --> 00:19:53,760
coming going. And so it interested me that he he leapt for a solution that was also at

215
00:19:53,760 --> 00:19:59,880
its very foundation, a problem for him, which, you know, I guess then it tracks that he didn't

216
00:19:59,880 --> 00:20:06,340
stay. He didn't finish out his. He made it three years, he said, and and got in trouble

217
00:20:06,340 --> 00:20:11,040
for falling asleep on guard duty, failure to obey orders, disrespect to a noncommissioned

218
00:20:11,040 --> 00:20:15,560
officer. He basically said, I've got three court marshals. Yeah. And I was looking at

219
00:20:15,560 --> 00:20:22,440
the actual doc that they would show the documents of his troubles. And everyone had a DUI on

220
00:20:22,440 --> 00:20:30,700
there and he would never point that out. Well, too, too much truth, maybe. And you know,

221
00:20:30,700 --> 00:20:35,400
it's there that he gets a chance to become a DJ. So there's our right. Good morning,

222
00:20:35,400 --> 00:20:41,400
not a moment, I suppose. Right. He becomes a DJ while he's in the Air Force. And then

223
00:20:41,400 --> 00:20:47,360
that experience enables him to try to go for a job in radio there at the at the number

224
00:20:47,360 --> 00:20:54,440
one station in the town where he was stationed, rather. And he gets it, which I think is I

225
00:20:54,440 --> 00:20:58,640
wanted to sort of reflect on that with you, too. Like, doesn't it make you feel you know,

226
00:20:58,640 --> 00:21:02,760
when you sometimes you're looking at these stories, these early years, early success,

227
00:21:02,760 --> 00:21:09,320
the entertainers and the access you had to getting a shot at your dreams is so different

228
00:21:09,320 --> 00:21:14,280
than now. Right. I think. Do you think that that's because number one, fewer people, but

229
00:21:14,280 --> 00:21:23,120
also number two, these were really newer mediums. These were emerging areas of entertainment

230
00:21:23,120 --> 00:21:29,680
where the guy could just wander in and go, hey, I'd like to be a DJ. You get your shot.

231
00:21:29,680 --> 00:21:37,440
Yeah, I'd like to believe that it's more challenging now. And but I'm sure the previous generation

232
00:21:37,440 --> 00:21:41,560
thought they were more challenging than the generation before. Right. And the realities

233
00:21:41,560 --> 00:21:47,320
are for every George Carlin documentary, there's a thousand documentaries that are not made

234
00:21:47,320 --> 00:21:52,160
because people didn't get those breaks. That's true. That's true. And I'm sure you're right

235
00:21:52,160 --> 00:21:57,260
generationally like Ray, all the vaudevillians are going nobody these days. It's so easy.

236
00:21:57,260 --> 00:22:04,200
Nobody had to put their all their clothes in a trunk. Exactly. Exactly. So maybe just

237
00:22:04,200 --> 00:22:07,800
from our perspective, it looks really easy, but it does. It just and there's several that

238
00:22:07,800 --> 00:22:11,840
theme actually rises up for me a few times. I'll flag it each time we come into it, but

239
00:22:11,840 --> 00:22:16,840
it just truly I don't know if it's good timing, right place, right time, easier access. I'm

240
00:22:16,840 --> 00:22:21,160
not sure what it is, but it sort of strikes me. His story has a couple of those moments.

241
00:22:21,160 --> 00:22:26,400
Right. But I mean, this is a testament to his, you know, his drive is these would happen

242
00:22:26,400 --> 00:22:30,640
and he would capitalize on. Right. He'd look at them. If we look back on our lives, there's

243
00:22:30,640 --> 00:22:35,480
probably something that really could have taken us in a different direction, but for

244
00:22:35,480 --> 00:22:39,600
whatever reason didn't. Yeah. Took me four years to get us in this studio. There you

245
00:22:39,600 --> 00:22:47,840
go. And I'm ready to retire. But for him, you know, it was he built on these opportunities

246
00:22:47,840 --> 00:22:53,960
and yes, that's that has to go happen. Yeah. It's a testament to his fortitude for sure.

247
00:22:53,960 --> 00:22:58,680
He knew what he wanted. He was making opportunities for himself. I will say this is a guy who,

248
00:22:58,680 --> 00:23:03,160
when he did stumble or have something that, you know, might knock somebody back permanently,

249
00:23:03,160 --> 00:23:10,000
the guy just pivoted. He just, he just was like doubled down on his intention to succeed,

250
00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:16,640
which I really, really respect. Um, this is where Jack Burns enters his life while he's

251
00:23:16,640 --> 00:23:22,120
working at this DJ station. Jack was his newsman and they apparently they had some great comedy

252
00:23:22,120 --> 00:23:26,320
chemistry together. And so they decided together that they were going to drive to California

253
00:23:26,320 --> 00:23:33,080
in a Dodge Dart with only 300 bucks. I've never done anything that risky in my life.

254
00:23:33,080 --> 00:23:38,880
And and really, you know, beyond just the comedy dynamic that they had together, you

255
00:23:38,880 --> 00:23:45,000
know, apparently, um, he really had an influence on George from a political perspective. They

256
00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:49,480
talk about the fact that his mother, to your point from earlier, his parents were conservative.

257
00:23:49,480 --> 00:23:53,540
His mother was really conservative. And up until that point, she had been his main point

258
00:23:53,540 --> 00:23:59,520
of influence. But, you know, meeting Jack Burns, connecting with Jack Burns, um, really

259
00:23:59,520 --> 00:24:05,540
influenced him politically because Jack was a raging liberal and an artist type who really

260
00:24:05,540 --> 00:24:10,880
like passionately believed in civil rights and didn't trust the government. And I think

261
00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:18,840
maybe George, it seems as though George recognized himself in Jack a little bit.

262
00:24:18,840 --> 00:24:23,600
Yeah, something I like to do when I'm watching these documentaries is when there is a something

263
00:24:23,600 --> 00:24:28,800
added that interests me, I'll do a little research and a couple of fun facts about Jack

264
00:24:28,800 --> 00:24:36,520
Burns. After he and George broke up, his second partner was Avery Schreiber, who you might

265
00:24:36,520 --> 00:24:40,080
know as the Doritos guy. If you remember back long ago, he was a guy with the handlebar

266
00:24:40,080 --> 00:24:48,720
mustache. Oh, my gosh. Who was the Doritos mascot, if you will. Um, and do you remember

267
00:24:48,720 --> 00:24:54,400
the old cartoon, adult cartoon, Wait Till Your Father Gets Home? I do not. Starring

268
00:24:54,400 --> 00:25:01,040
Tom Bosley as the father. I mean, it was a precursor to The Simpsons, all your more mature

269
00:25:01,040 --> 00:25:08,680
theme animations. He was the neighbor voiceover. Okay. And he co-wrote the Muppet, first Muppet

270
00:25:08,680 --> 00:25:13,280
movie. So that's your Jack Burns. Oh, you really, you really buried the lead there.

271
00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:19,200
Oh, I did. Oh, the Muppet movie. Meaning that to me, like, that's the one. The fact that

272
00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:27,200
you don't remember the Doritos guy. I just, I lived on Doritos because I couldn't open

273
00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:36,040
the fridge. We didn't have Doritos in my house. Interesting. I love a little trivia.

274
00:25:36,040 --> 00:25:40,340
Thanks for bringing that. Oh, and he did pass not too long ago. I think he literally just

275
00:25:40,340 --> 00:25:47,600
passed away in the last three or four years. Um, RIP. Um, okay. So now he's out, you know,

276
00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:54,560
while they're on the road, he and Jack, um, they, uh, he's doing a show and he meets Brenda

277
00:25:54,560 --> 00:25:59,900
on the road. She was working at, um, one of the places where he was doing standup and

278
00:25:59,900 --> 00:26:04,760
they clicked immediately. I thought that it was, she really struck me. This is where she

279
00:26:04,760 --> 00:26:09,760
enters and there's a lot of, thankfully there are a lot of interviews with her and this

280
00:26:09,760 --> 00:26:14,140
is where she talks about the first time that they met. And what struck me about her, Jim,

281
00:26:14,140 --> 00:26:18,920
is that, that I liked that seemed like they were a good match for this reason is both

282
00:26:18,920 --> 00:26:23,520
just very sure of who they were. She's a very, like, is comfortable in her own skin, right?

283
00:26:23,520 --> 00:26:27,840
Like he came up and asked her, like, where does a guy, it's sort of a line, I guess,

284
00:26:27,840 --> 00:26:32,020
but like, where does a guy, you know, go to have some fun in this place? And she says,

285
00:26:32,020 --> 00:26:35,640
you find a girl with a stereo and go to her house and she took them home, which I just,

286
00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:40,600
I marveled at the fact that he was delivering a line and she delivered one right back and

287
00:26:40,600 --> 00:26:44,000
that kind of, that really kicks you off with the nature of their dynamic.

288
00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:52,960
I agree. I mean, uh, you put it very well that I probably glossed over, but now that

289
00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:59,080
you say it is an important dynamic that we see throughout the documentary.

290
00:26:59,080 --> 00:27:02,840
Absolutely. And she's not, you know, she's easy on the eyes. She's got beautiful bone

291
00:27:02,840 --> 00:27:08,560
structure. I don't know if that's relevant. Um, but I wanted to sort of also reflect on

292
00:27:08,560 --> 00:27:15,040
something that I noticed in this, um, from a human perspective and that's, you know,

293
00:27:15,040 --> 00:27:19,800
she takes him home right away. He stays two weeks. I don't know that there's anybody.

294
00:27:19,800 --> 00:27:24,720
I really, really know I want in my house for two weeks. Number one. Um, but that, that

295
00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:31,840
sort of struck me. And then they communicated over the ensuing seven weeks, they say, and

296
00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:37,080
there's all these love notes and voicemails. I love the fact that they kept this stuff

297
00:27:37,080 --> 00:27:45,040
and that they somehow have these things. Um, and then he came back and married her and

298
00:27:45,040 --> 00:27:51,080
literally she quits her job and leaves her life and where she lives and becomes his partner

299
00:27:51,080 --> 00:27:54,360
and number one fan. And they, she hops in the car and boom, they get on the road. Her

300
00:27:54,360 --> 00:27:59,280
daughter says they were comrades in arms and he and Jack burns decide to split. And you

301
00:27:59,280 --> 00:28:06,720
know, Jack feels the pull of becoming the Doritos guy, apparently they split and, uh,

302
00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:11,160
George is going to make a go of single standup comedy. And, and because of that, um, as we

303
00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:15,680
know, and this is where, you know, um, I think a lot of people can relate. They really struggled

304
00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:21,640
right to that early, that starving artist phase. They struggled financially. And I really

305
00:28:21,640 --> 00:28:26,640
loved how she talks about this, how Brenda, his wife talks about this time where she basically

306
00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:31,280
says, yeah, they were really struggling, but she really hung in with him. She never urged

307
00:28:31,280 --> 00:28:36,400
him to choose something more secure, which I really, you know, I had to hand it to her.

308
00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:41,880
I think, you know, I know, I know a lot of people who have asked the other person like,

309
00:28:41,880 --> 00:28:47,080
okay, give up this pipe dream and please just become an accountant or whatever the thing

310
00:28:47,080 --> 00:28:51,280
is. Um, and so I really loved that they truly were a partnership in that way. I mean, she

311
00:28:51,280 --> 00:28:58,440
just really had faith in his ability to parlay his personality and his perspective into a,

312
00:28:58,440 --> 00:29:02,800
a career, a really successful career. And, and, and then this brings us back to the theme

313
00:29:02,800 --> 00:29:06,680
that I was talking about earlier, Jim, where, you know, he, he began doing amateur nights

314
00:29:06,680 --> 00:29:12,560
in New York city, really focused on that, um, in order to get experience and exposure.

315
00:29:12,560 --> 00:29:17,560
But then they hop right to, you know, he got a shot at on the Merv Griffin show and I wondered

316
00:29:17,560 --> 00:29:22,680
how much time had gone by. Yeah, that's a good question. Uh, you know, he's, he's the

317
00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:27,680
comedian with at least five lives. I mean, yeah, he got on the Merv Griffin. He did.

318
00:29:27,680 --> 00:29:33,280
And I think your point is well taken. You, if you somehow got onto Arsenio, you would

319
00:29:33,280 --> 00:29:38,040
probably, right, not be doing this podcast with me, right? It just, it's how many years

320
00:29:38,040 --> 00:29:42,640
I had to do tongue tricks before I got on Larmus. There you go. So many years in the

321
00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:50,960
trenches. I knew she'd get that in shameless plug. Um, and, and they talk a little bit

322
00:29:50,960 --> 00:29:58,560
about the Merv Griffin, uh, piece because it's a variety show. And so he had to couch

323
00:29:58,560 --> 00:30:05,400
his more subversive tendencies into, um, you know, sort of couch them in jokes. And they,

324
00:30:05,400 --> 00:30:09,680
they talk about the, like, I don't know if forever this part, the hippie dog whistle,

325
00:30:09,680 --> 00:30:15,360
how he'd, how he would impersonate what he knew was a stoned person. But, but he knew

326
00:30:15,360 --> 00:30:20,440
that as long as he didn't hit it like too much on the head, that the takeaway from people

327
00:30:20,440 --> 00:30:25,020
who didn't know any better was that this guy was just a dummy. But that, but that hippies

328
00:30:25,020 --> 00:30:29,280
would know, Oh, this guy's stoned. Do you remember that part? I do. That was interesting.

329
00:30:29,280 --> 00:30:32,920
But if I correct me, I'm wrong. Merv Griffin was a talk show, but then he got onto the

330
00:30:32,920 --> 00:30:37,920
John Davidson, Davidson show, right? That was a variety show. The craft summer musical.

331
00:30:37,920 --> 00:30:43,480
Right. And if you remember John Davidson from that's incredible. I do. I do. That's

332
00:30:43,480 --> 00:30:48,760
the household I lived in. Right. One of the three hosts was John Davidson, Fran Tarkington

333
00:30:48,760 --> 00:30:54,600
and what was her name? No, no. Oh yeah. And all my parents talked about was how she left

334
00:30:54,600 --> 00:30:59,200
her husband for Joe Theismann. It's like, why do I know this? Why do you know that?

335
00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:04,000
Wait, what was her name? Am I wrong? Am I remembering this wrong? Did Byron Allen join

336
00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:11,960
that show eventually? When a young Byron Allen, who is now like a media mogul, the guy is,

337
00:31:11,960 --> 00:31:17,520
I don't know. I forgot. I forgot. Write in and tell us. I forgot the name of what's her

338
00:31:17,520 --> 00:31:20,400
name who left her husband for Joe Theismann. Now we don't even know. We're going to hear

339
00:31:20,400 --> 00:31:27,560
from people that will let us know. Okay. So yeah, it's that hippie dog is on the John

340
00:31:27,560 --> 00:31:35,800
Davidson show. Right. Yeah. And we see that scene with him and Richard Pryor talking about

341
00:31:35,800 --> 00:31:42,320
looking at the audience. He gets a gig. He gets a gig. What we're talking about in 1966,

342
00:31:42,320 --> 00:31:48,720
he books the Kraft Summer Musical before my time. And it also wasn't something that I

343
00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:57,400
I remember at all. I don't know how long that show ran. What moved me was the letter that

344
00:31:57,400 --> 00:32:04,840
was writing either to herself or to someone the weekend after the JFK assassination, where

345
00:32:04,840 --> 00:32:12,040
she really talks about, you know, how difficult it is to do what they're doing. But she just

346
00:32:12,040 --> 00:32:16,520
knows they need to be doing it. And just I just reflecting back on that. Yeah. Razor's

347
00:32:16,520 --> 00:32:22,200
edge of and so close to quitting. Yeah, it's just ain't worth it no more having, you know,

348
00:32:22,200 --> 00:32:29,560
started a theater in downtown LA and living in a very undesirable living situation make

349
00:32:29,560 --> 00:32:35,560
happen. I did quit. Right. No, no more. I'm going into video games. The converted brewery.

350
00:32:35,560 --> 00:32:43,240
I did. And with no kitchen and a shower. That used to be a urinal. Never knew that. How

351
00:32:43,240 --> 00:32:50,640
did I go to that brewery so many times and I know that that, you know, that point that

352
00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:55,880
there must have been so easy just going, you know, let's let's take a step back. Let's

353
00:32:55,880 --> 00:32:59,920
take a break and figure out what we want to do. That probably would have been the death

354
00:32:59,920 --> 00:33:04,160
nail, but they just had to keep going. It would have been a car salesman. Yeah. Or whatever.

355
00:33:04,160 --> 00:33:09,160
I mean, he's a talented guy. So and I think I, you know, you bringing up her letter really

356
00:33:09,160 --> 00:33:17,320
makes me want to sort of take a take a beat to recognize a style of filmmaking that Apatow

357
00:33:17,320 --> 00:33:26,240
and Bonfiglio do that I really love. And that is the animation of the handwritten notes,

358
00:33:26,240 --> 00:33:32,360
the diaries, the circling of things. You know, I really feel like those artifacts of who

359
00:33:32,360 --> 00:33:36,680
we are and like our lives and the way, you know, diaries and journals and the things

360
00:33:36,680 --> 00:33:40,720
that the notes that you write down in and of themselves, I think are really personal

361
00:33:40,720 --> 00:33:44,680
and really sort of fill out a story and give it a personal touch. But the fact that they've

362
00:33:44,680 --> 00:33:49,920
made this choice to animate that, you literally see it being written is really cool. I think

363
00:33:49,920 --> 00:33:53,720
it's a really cool choice. I agree with you. So John Davidson was the host of the Kraft

364
00:33:53,720 --> 00:33:59,920
Summer Musical, which was, you know, Brenda called the first turning point of success

365
00:33:59,920 --> 00:34:07,160
because George gets an agent, he gets a press agent, a manager and and in so doing effectively

366
00:34:07,160 --> 00:34:12,240
puts Brenda out of a job and excludes her from that part of what was once their life

367
00:34:12,240 --> 00:34:20,400
is now just his life, which I can imagine is just really jarring. She, you know, and

368
00:34:20,400 --> 00:34:27,800
so then obviously she's she's cut out of that and she's feeling really replaced, abandoned,

369
00:34:27,800 --> 00:34:31,200
dealing with a lot of feelings of worthlessness. I mean, I just put myself in her shoes and

370
00:34:31,200 --> 00:34:37,560
I think how it feels it's so gratifying to really take a chance on something to do a

371
00:34:37,560 --> 00:34:44,320
lot of work, to suffer for it, to hang in there, to be like a partner in a thing and

372
00:34:44,320 --> 00:34:49,520
then suddenly be utterly outside of that thing. You are you are benefiting from that thing.

373
00:34:49,520 --> 00:34:53,480
Like I think Kelly says at some point, you know, she liked the lifestyle. She didn't

374
00:34:53,480 --> 00:34:58,760
mind the fact that now they were making money. But suddenly she's displaced from this thing

375
00:34:58,760 --> 00:35:05,800
that defined her everyday life. I have to believe that's just really tough. And clearly

376
00:35:05,800 --> 00:35:09,200
it is because this really kicks where she kicks off her drinking problem, her own drinking

377
00:35:09,200 --> 00:35:15,600
problem. And that's a testament to her, right? I mean, I'm sure a lot of marriages fail because

378
00:35:15,600 --> 00:35:20,960
right this very scenario. Yeah, she chose instead of leaving, she chose to numb. Right.

379
00:35:20,960 --> 00:35:26,140
She self medicated as they say today. Yeah. You know, she talks about that growing dysfunction

380
00:35:26,140 --> 00:35:33,760
becoming their little, you know, their family's dirty little secret. And but this was during

381
00:35:33,760 --> 00:35:38,200
his squeaky clean image, right? Where he said, if my family can't see it, then I'm not going

382
00:35:38,200 --> 00:35:43,000
to do it. Right. Right. Which is an interesting, interesting, right? Considering kind of who

383
00:35:43,000 --> 00:35:50,120
he was at the base of things and him talking about how he was a victim of his own success,

384
00:35:50,120 --> 00:35:54,200
that he was sort of missing who he really was because of that. Right. He was, you know,

385
00:35:54,200 --> 00:36:00,040
he was being something that he wasn't. So the real if he was being who he was, he may

386
00:36:00,040 --> 00:36:04,720
have been able to address that situation with his wife and her feeling left out and then

387
00:36:04,720 --> 00:36:12,600
drinking as a result. Right. But because he was playing a part, he probably. Right. That

388
00:36:12,600 --> 00:36:16,920
part couldn't deal with it, I guess. I don't know. I'm not a psychiatrist. It's just interesting.

389
00:36:16,920 --> 00:36:21,080
I don't know if you've been in this situation. I think I see this a lot too, which is if

390
00:36:21,080 --> 00:36:26,300
I have my things, I hope you're forgiving me about, and I want to keep doing these things

391
00:36:26,300 --> 00:36:32,080
that maybe you're forgiving me about. I might not call you out on your things that you require,

392
00:36:32,080 --> 00:36:37,680
you know, being forgiven for. And it's this unspoken contract we have, which is I'm letting

393
00:36:37,680 --> 00:36:41,280
you kind of slide on that thing, because I also have these things and you're kind of

394
00:36:41,280 --> 00:36:47,520
letting me slide. So there's this unspoken thing. And and so to that point, you know,

395
00:36:47,520 --> 00:36:53,240
we get into the next part where he talks about beginning to take acid and mescaline. Right.

396
00:36:53,240 --> 00:36:59,600
And so I don't think maybe he was going hard and fast on making her stop any sort of drinking

397
00:36:59,600 --> 00:37:08,040
when he was in a place of also dabbling. But before we get to the outlaw era, there's a

398
00:37:08,040 --> 00:37:14,880
scene where you have George and his daughter singing Rockin' My Baby. And it's really,

399
00:37:14,880 --> 00:37:22,880
you know, moving to be her to listen to that must be very difficult because that innocent

400
00:37:22,880 --> 00:37:27,040
with her daddy that, you know, is the light of her life. Oh, yeah. And she you can tell

401
00:37:27,040 --> 00:37:33,320
that she clearly threw out, you know, even though they have a history and a family that

402
00:37:33,320 --> 00:37:37,040
dealt with these dysfunctions that she really the through line of it is just a lot of love

403
00:37:37,040 --> 00:37:41,640
for her parents. Right. You know, and and humanizing them. And I think that that's really

404
00:37:41,640 --> 00:37:48,880
a sign of strength that you can to get to a place where you see your parents and their

405
00:37:48,880 --> 00:37:57,120
flaws as a thing that affected you negatively or otherwise. But that probably wasn't about

406
00:37:57,120 --> 00:38:04,440
you. It just landed on you. And it's it seems like she's really been able to see her parents

407
00:38:04,440 --> 00:38:10,240
as these flawed human beings and been able to unpack a lot of the things that drove those

408
00:38:10,240 --> 00:38:18,520
characteristics in them. And so he's he's dropping acid. I've never dropped acid, so

409
00:38:18,520 --> 00:38:22,840
I don't know what that experience is. Not yet anyway. So he begins to take acid and

410
00:38:22,840 --> 00:38:26,560
mescaline. He doesn't really we don't ever get any benefit of like the context of that,

411
00:38:26,560 --> 00:38:30,200
like like how did how did that come about? But I guess it doesn't matter. He he just

412
00:38:30,200 --> 00:38:36,800
says that he saw things differently and as a result of dabbling in these drugs and he

413
00:38:36,800 --> 00:38:42,480
saw that, you know, and this is a quote from him, who I really was was an outlaw and a

414
00:38:42,480 --> 00:38:48,440
rebel who swam against the tide of the establishment of what the establishment wants from us.

415
00:38:48,440 --> 00:38:52,880
And that person was being suppressed. So I had to come to terms with who I really was

416
00:38:52,880 --> 00:38:58,320
and what I really wanted to do. Which, gosh, I feel like that's brave. Like you and I are

417
00:38:58,320 --> 00:39:05,360
both people who've been, you know, worked creatively and chased creative based dreams.

418
00:39:05,360 --> 00:39:13,200
And imagine that you're getting you're actually finally nibbling on that cookie. And it's

419
00:39:13,200 --> 00:39:18,800
the you think, oh, it took me so it took me a lot of work to get to this cookie, to eat

420
00:39:18,800 --> 00:39:25,160
over at this cookie. And now I realize I don't this is the wrong side of the cookie. And

421
00:39:25,160 --> 00:39:30,360
in order to change, I've got to risk not getting back to this cookie like that. That's a weird

422
00:39:30,360 --> 00:39:37,040
analogy. But I just mean the fact that he pivoted at all, that he reflected on who he

423
00:39:37,040 --> 00:39:44,400
really was and the truth of what he wanted to express as as a creative, as a comedian,

424
00:39:44,400 --> 00:39:49,080
and that he decided I'm not going to be this thing. I'm not going to be this mainstream

425
00:39:49,080 --> 00:39:54,400
comedian. I'm going to be this rebel and this outlaw, which a lot of there's just so much

426
00:39:54,400 --> 00:40:00,040
risk. Right. He was miserable, but successful. Right. And a lot of people today will stay

427
00:40:00,040 --> 00:40:05,640
miserable because the success is just too much of an enticement. Right. The fear of

428
00:40:05,640 --> 00:40:12,800
change. Right. Permeates everywhere. But in my opinion, each change he makes, he gets

429
00:40:12,800 --> 00:40:20,960
better as a comedian. Yes. And as someone a person of influence in our society. So but

430
00:40:20,960 --> 00:40:26,240
it's not easy. Changes like that are just hard. So hard and so much risk. And and especially

431
00:40:26,240 --> 00:40:30,400
when you're now experiencing some success. And I write after living in a dodged art.

432
00:40:30,400 --> 00:40:35,880
How do you explain that to your wife? Honey, we're going back to the dark. Yeah. But now

433
00:40:35,880 --> 00:40:42,040
I can afford a station wagon. Like we're really moving on up. I you know, I I think that and

434
00:40:42,040 --> 00:40:47,120
he says here, one of the things I learned as a child was to deny my feelings. It saved

435
00:40:47,120 --> 00:40:53,120
my life, probably pushing the feelings down. But I was a traitor and living a lie because

436
00:40:53,120 --> 00:40:58,800
I wanted to say so many things. And what changed that was acid. Which I think is not therapy

437
00:40:58,800 --> 00:41:03,960
or any of the things we're all doing today. Although there is some arguments in the world

438
00:41:03,960 --> 00:41:13,800
of psilocybin and treating trauma. I digress. I think that that's also it's pretty reflective

439
00:41:13,800 --> 00:41:20,280
that he he's been able to look back on the ways in which he developed as a person as

440
00:41:20,280 --> 00:41:24,440
a result of his childhood. Again, that theme coming back where he says I I learned as a

441
00:41:24,440 --> 00:41:28,760
child to deny my feelings and that saved me, which I think you have to do when you have

442
00:41:28,760 --> 00:41:36,480
either neglectful parents or or abusive parents, you have to figure out a way to compartmentalize

443
00:41:36,480 --> 00:41:39,760
those tough feelings so that you can keep moving. You know, and I thought that was really

444
00:41:39,760 --> 00:41:45,040
insightful that he had that perspective on himself and that he did acid. This brings

445
00:41:45,040 --> 00:41:48,320
his uncle. I wanted to talk to you about this because I thought this was wild. And this

446
00:41:48,320 --> 00:41:55,560
is another example of what I'm talking about. He brings his brother, which, by the way,

447
00:41:55,560 --> 00:42:01,200
I I did a cartoon double take that that was his brother based on what you see. You know,

448
00:42:01,200 --> 00:42:06,420
you guys, if you haven't seen it yet, his brother is a part of this narrative and he's

449
00:42:06,420 --> 00:42:11,760
interviewed for this documentary and he is he's looking rough like he's a guy who's lived

450
00:42:11,760 --> 00:42:16,840
hard and it's it's absolutely on his exterior, which is no different than George, honestly,

451
00:42:16,840 --> 00:42:22,400
like at the point where he's 45, the guy looks like he's 60. And so it's common, you know,

452
00:42:22,400 --> 00:42:28,480
obviously between the two of them. But there's this footage of he and his brother on a.

453
00:42:28,480 --> 00:42:38,840
It's all of them. He on a whim, he just asks his car salesman brother to come on and do

454
00:42:38,840 --> 00:42:45,560
this gag with him. This bit, his brother says they're both loaded, which is just I just

455
00:42:45,560 --> 00:42:49,960
want to unpack that. But his brother's great. I mean, he's a great straight man in that

456
00:42:49,960 --> 00:42:55,080
bit that is somewhat funny. I didn't blow me away. It was all right. It was OK. But

457
00:42:55,080 --> 00:43:05,040
I just I just thought the balls just truly the balls of like I'm going to go on Ed Sullivan

458
00:43:05,040 --> 00:43:10,160
and I'm going to bring my non pro brother. Right. And he's just going to riff with me

459
00:43:10,160 --> 00:43:16,500
while we're both high as a kite. All of that. I got to be honest, I was a little jealous

460
00:43:16,500 --> 00:43:20,720
of the experience. I just thought that'd be fun. That just feels like I'd love to go be

461
00:43:20,720 --> 00:43:26,840
in his shoes just for that day. Right. What was that Sullivan thinking when he sees this?

462
00:43:26,840 --> 00:43:32,480
Gosh, I don't know. You do. You do an Ed Sullivan impression, don't you? Yeah, I had to stop.

463
00:43:32,480 --> 00:43:37,440
I was getting a lot of complaints. Do you feel like when George got to the afterlife

464
00:43:37,440 --> 00:43:45,640
that Ed was there to say what you were high on my show? Anyway, I just really that stood

465
00:43:45,640 --> 00:43:53,200
out for me, honestly. And OK, so the next sort of phase of this is his for me that I

466
00:43:53,200 --> 00:44:00,920
that I have in my notes is his embracing of profanity and and the fact that he just basically

467
00:44:00,920 --> 00:44:06,000
now in this new outlaw rebel phase as he's doing stand up and booking gigs, he just sort

468
00:44:06,000 --> 00:44:14,400
of letting it fly. He's not edited. Right. And he gets fired. He gets fired from a like

469
00:44:14,400 --> 00:44:20,920
a week. It's a weekly job for three years. I did the math on this, Jim. OK, I did the

470
00:44:20,920 --> 00:44:25,160
I went back and looked up the inflation. Well, he was at the he was at the frontier in Vegas.

471
00:44:25,160 --> 00:44:29,760
Right. The front. So, yeah, good point. He's in Vegas. He's got a three year contract.

472
00:44:29,760 --> 00:44:34,800
It is a once a week show. He's making twelve thousand five hundred dollars a week in today's

473
00:44:34,800 --> 00:44:41,080
money. That's almost a hundred K a week a week in today's money. It's not quite a hundred

474
00:44:41,080 --> 00:44:44,400
thousand. It's about nine. I mean, if we're going to get into the math, it's ninety eight

475
00:44:44,400 --> 00:44:49,360
thousand dollars a year. Round up to one hundred thousand and fifty two weeks is one hundred

476
00:44:49,360 --> 00:44:59,120
five point two million. Just our next podcast will be mathematics. Please weigh in on this.

477
00:44:59,120 --> 00:45:05,000
So either way, whatever, whatever, whatever. It's why did he get fired? It's a buttload

478
00:45:05,000 --> 00:45:10,040
of money. Well, because he keeps being he's using profanity. He's just wearing and according

479
00:45:10,040 --> 00:45:13,360
to him, he just said shit. Is that all he said? That's all he said. He got fired for

480
00:45:13,360 --> 00:45:19,880
saying shit. Oh, he goes, I find that ironic that I got fired for saying shit in a place

481
00:45:19,880 --> 00:45:25,400
that plays crap. Oh, yeah, that crap. That's right. OK. I didn't know if it was singularly

482
00:45:25,400 --> 00:45:31,600
that word and he or that was a bit. That's how I. Yeah. No, I thought there was a news.

483
00:45:31,600 --> 00:45:37,760
No, the news clipping said profanity and he's saying he just said shit. That's what that's

484
00:45:37,760 --> 00:45:41,040
what. Well, here's what's interesting. The documentary doesn't include this, but I did

485
00:45:41,040 --> 00:45:48,560
a little Intel, a little recon myself. He actually he got fired from that gig that year,

486
00:45:48,560 --> 00:45:54,000
asked for forgiveness, went and they finally let him back the next year. So they rebooked

487
00:45:54,000 --> 00:45:59,800
him and he promptly used all the same language. Did he still get fired? Yes, he got fired

488
00:45:59,800 --> 00:46:05,320
a second time, which I just think is so funny. Why bother getting yourself back in there

489
00:46:05,320 --> 00:46:09,960
if your plan is to just let it all fly, let it all hang out, which you got to respect.

490
00:46:09,960 --> 00:46:13,600
But anyway, I thought that was a little funny thing that I sort of researched and saw that

491
00:46:13,600 --> 00:46:20,960
he did. And so in order to find his audience, find the audience for him being his true self.

492
00:46:20,960 --> 00:46:25,600
He tells Brenda, I got to go on the college tour. Right. I got to pivot towards younger

493
00:46:25,600 --> 00:46:33,520
people who my stuff is really for. So I could, you know, and I quote, show my complete self.

494
00:46:33,520 --> 00:46:38,520
We'll get to it. I just one of the things that I noticed as he as he decided to pivot

495
00:46:38,520 --> 00:46:45,440
his material to being more toward himself, I noticed this similar effect on his outward

496
00:46:45,440 --> 00:46:52,440
style, that it's not just him being himself in this sort of thinking subject matter perspective,

497
00:46:52,440 --> 00:46:57,960
the way I talk about it, profanity, et cetera. But his hair goes long. He immediately loses

498
00:46:57,960 --> 00:47:05,400
any kind of suit, any kind of conservative denim. Yeah, it all changes. What I was impressed

499
00:47:05,400 --> 00:47:11,200
by is, of course, that yielded a ton of questions. You know, what's the new George Carlin? He

500
00:47:11,200 --> 00:47:17,720
never dismissed it. He never took it personally. He was never insulted. He would answer that

501
00:47:17,720 --> 00:47:24,000
question that everybody asked him from Michael Douglas to Joe Colno, who he's happened to

502
00:47:24,000 --> 00:47:30,200
sit next to a John Lennon. And he answers it with grace and he explains it. And he takes

503
00:47:30,200 --> 00:47:34,600
his time and he explains it. He doesn't say it's none of your business. I'm the artist.

504
00:47:34,600 --> 00:47:41,920
It was he was a professional about it. And he was getting more anti established. He stayed

505
00:47:41,920 --> 00:47:49,440
professional in his way. He was doing what he was doing. I feel like it goes all the

506
00:47:49,440 --> 00:47:54,520
way back to fifth grade, where he knew what he wanted to be and what he wanted to do.

507
00:47:54,520 --> 00:48:01,960
And it's almost like that knowing, knowing this pivot is what I need to do. It almost

508
00:48:01,960 --> 00:48:05,640
it almost released him from having to be defensive because he's just like, look, this is what

509
00:48:05,640 --> 00:48:08,840
I got to do. Yeah, this is the thing. And he was going to do it. Yeah. No matter what.

510
00:48:08,840 --> 00:48:12,160
Right. You accept it or you don't accept it. This is the way I'm going. And you got to

511
00:48:12,160 --> 00:48:16,920
really respect that. And and the fact that honestly, and you and I, you know, we're middle

512
00:48:16,920 --> 00:48:25,680
aged people. And so we've come to need and need and value making more money and needing

513
00:48:25,680 --> 00:48:31,000
to, you know, have a have that for security. So I also respected the fact that it dialed

514
00:48:31,000 --> 00:48:35,800
he and Brenda down to twelve thousand a year. Now, that's not a pittance when you consider

515
00:48:35,800 --> 00:48:39,320
that twelve thousand a year was almost a hundred grand a year. It was they were still doing

516
00:48:39,320 --> 00:48:43,880
it right, especially for them. But I just I really respected the fact that they took

517
00:48:43,880 --> 00:48:51,760
this big hit financially and just been kept on with it. You know, you look like you have

518
00:48:51,760 --> 00:48:55,360
a thought. Well, I mean, I don't want I don't want I don't want to let the cat out of the

519
00:48:55,360 --> 00:49:00,560
bag. It does it four more times. Is that a question of is he just never happy or is this

520
00:49:00,560 --> 00:49:06,080
just how you should do life? You should be constantly evolving. What's the saying? Evolve

521
00:49:06,080 --> 00:49:13,720
or die? Is that it? Who says that? And so invariably this has an effect on their marriage.

522
00:49:13,720 --> 00:49:19,520
When and in a good way. Right. So what was trending sort of negatively as he had seen

523
00:49:19,520 --> 00:49:24,280
early success mainstream when he changed into counterculture guy, it was exciting for Brenda

524
00:49:24,280 --> 00:49:28,800
because it was like the old days. It was just like starting over. Right. When he said to

525
00:49:28,800 --> 00:49:34,040
her, look, I want to make this I want to make this change. I want to take this risk. And

526
00:49:34,040 --> 00:49:39,260
this is who I really am. She said, I'll make your press kit. Right. She did not bauble

527
00:49:39,260 --> 00:49:44,320
and moved right forward. And and even though, you know, as Kelly said, she had enjoyed the

528
00:49:44,320 --> 00:49:51,120
lifestyle. But she, you know, she was no longer pertinent prior to that. You're right. He

529
00:49:51,120 --> 00:49:57,840
goes from 250 K to 12 K. Yeah. This is where you see Stephen Colbert come in. And he has

530
00:49:57,840 --> 00:50:02,340
a great analogy of saying, you know, George Carlin's like the Beatles, right? He starts

531
00:50:02,340 --> 00:50:08,920
out singing, you know, she loves you. Yeah. And it evolves to the white album. Right.

532
00:50:08,920 --> 00:50:15,240
Clearly, there's a transformation there. That's a great analogy. You make a good point. Yeah.

533
00:50:15,240 --> 00:50:19,560
And and and this is where you start to see because George is really wanting to speak

534
00:50:19,560 --> 00:50:27,960
his mind as opposed to play some part. Right. How apropos he is not he was not just then,

535
00:50:27,960 --> 00:50:33,120
but even more now where he talks about the birth control pills someday becoming, you

536
00:50:33,120 --> 00:50:38,440
know, need a prescription. But they having these crazy names and he goes off on these,

537
00:50:38,440 --> 00:50:45,720
you know, mom bombs and crazy names. But have you ever watched streaming TV with commercials?

538
00:50:45,720 --> 00:50:51,120
They're almost all these ads for medications that have these crazy names. How did he see

539
00:50:51,120 --> 00:50:55,760
that? So way back then? I don't know. He really did. And again, it's from him just taking

540
00:50:55,760 --> 00:51:02,680
off what he felt were, you know, blocks or gates. Right. Speaking how he sees the world,

541
00:51:02,680 --> 00:51:08,800
it really shows him to be someone who not only saw that day, but it perpetuated even

542
00:51:08,800 --> 00:51:17,760
worse in the future. And then and I like the part about how Flip Wilson had that record

543
00:51:17,760 --> 00:51:26,280
label Little David Records that helped George Carlin start to make money again because he

544
00:51:26,280 --> 00:51:32,480
was making his albums. And what I did a little deep diving there and Little David Records,

545
00:51:32,480 --> 00:51:37,320
he actually sold to George Carlin. So George Carlin bought little and then he folded it

546
00:51:37,320 --> 00:51:44,560
into his his label, Ear Drum Records in the 80s. And I think lasted until he passed. I

547
00:51:44,560 --> 00:51:48,840
do love these tidbits you're bringing to the lot. I really keep it up to the part of the

548
00:51:48,840 --> 00:51:55,720
documentary where it seems his drug problem really grows. And this is at this point his

549
00:51:55,720 --> 00:52:01,400
first arrest for but they're both doing drugs, right? She's not just drinking. She's doing

550
00:52:01,400 --> 00:52:06,800
coke with him. I believe you're right. I believe they're both abusing drugs and pot. Right.

551
00:52:06,800 --> 00:52:10,320
And am I remembering this correctly? He was arrested. Well, it's in my notes. I just don't

552
00:52:10,320 --> 00:52:16,880
know if it's correct. He was arrested for growing pot is what I what I noted. And then

553
00:52:16,880 --> 00:52:21,680
also gets into cocaine. So here's where cocaine gets on board. A note I gave myself was when

554
00:52:21,680 --> 00:52:28,840
he was on that show with his wife, Brenda and the two co-hosts asking him about drugs

555
00:52:28,840 --> 00:52:35,320
and about their daughter and drugs. Right. And they said, what when your daughter figures

556
00:52:35,320 --> 00:52:40,760
out what will you tell her? And Brenda said, Well, I hope that if she does do drugs, it's

557
00:52:40,760 --> 00:52:45,460
pot or something like that. And the daughter in present age goes, Yeah, you can tell she's

558
00:52:45,460 --> 00:52:50,720
loaded there. Yeah. Kelly says that's loaded, mom. Yeah. Which I think is really a perception

559
00:52:50,720 --> 00:52:56,360
of children of of abuse, like substance abusers. Right. It's like, oh, that guy's here or that

560
00:52:56,360 --> 00:53:04,040
girl's here. Right. But his response is spot on and just really shows how intelligent he

561
00:53:04,040 --> 00:53:11,520
is and how he's not persuaded by trends, fads, decisions based on, you know, right masses

562
00:53:11,520 --> 00:53:17,920
of people or, or, you know, groups or religions or anything. And he basically says, Look,

563
00:53:17,920 --> 00:53:21,280
we're going to be at we give her an honest answer where she can trust us. She's going

564
00:53:21,280 --> 00:53:25,220
to, she's not gonna hear it from us. She's going to hear it from her kit friends at school.

565
00:53:25,220 --> 00:53:29,160
So we might as well be honest with her or she trusts us. And we have. Yeah. And it's

566
00:53:29,160 --> 00:53:35,160
just really reasoned, it really points out how smart he is. Yeah. And then yeah, and

567
00:53:35,160 --> 00:53:41,480
that that's actually, I think on most topics, that's what your is good for your kid. Right.

568
00:53:41,480 --> 00:53:45,960
So yeah, you know, they get into cocaine at this point. I love this story. And if I'm

569
00:53:45,960 --> 00:53:54,360
skipping ahead, please pull me back. But my next note is about buying a jet and sitting

570
00:53:54,360 --> 00:54:00,800
on the tarmac with the for the exclusive purpose of just drinking beer, smoking pot and doing

571
00:54:00,800 --> 00:54:06,320
cocaine by himself. Two six packs he brought. And he just saying, look, I just clearly I

572
00:54:06,320 --> 00:54:12,520
didn't understand finances when I bought a plane just to use it as a hideaway. I also

573
00:54:12,520 --> 00:54:19,680
thought to myself that his takeaway of that scenario was exclusively his abandonment of

574
00:54:19,680 --> 00:54:25,240
understanding of finances. Like there are so many things wrong. That's true. Like there's

575
00:54:25,240 --> 00:54:29,680
just so many elements of this that is dysfunctional. But he's like, man, I need to be better with

576
00:54:29,680 --> 00:54:39,720
my money. Yeah. What a pile of coke or the bag of pot or the 12 pack. And by yourself,

577
00:54:39,720 --> 00:54:48,480
like I'm vibing to excess alone on a tarmac, which is private jet. Truly, I just had to

578
00:54:48,480 --> 00:54:52,640
laugh when I saw them. I thought, OK, if that was your takeaway, that he came off that plane

579
00:54:52,640 --> 00:54:58,640
the next day is a miracle of modern science. Unbelievable. Yeah. So so that happens. And

580
00:54:58,640 --> 00:55:04,600
then, you know, I and I might be skipping ahead. I did sort of truncate some of this stuff,

581
00:55:04,600 --> 00:55:09,840
but I have my notes talking about how the marriage was affected and how he's, you know,

582
00:55:09,840 --> 00:55:13,920
once again, we're like backing their letters and and him writing letters to Brenda saying

583
00:55:13,920 --> 00:55:17,560
he's going to get off the drugs. He's going to get off the booze. He says. And I thought

584
00:55:17,560 --> 00:55:22,840
this was really pertinent that he needs to get to the bottom of why he's drinking and

585
00:55:22,840 --> 00:55:30,400
why he wants to, quote, hurt and be hurt and and why essentially he sees his drug use as

586
00:55:30,400 --> 00:55:36,920
a form of therapy. Right. Self-medicating, I guess. And, you know, his promises to sort

587
00:55:36,920 --> 00:55:42,720
of stop, which is interesting. I think it's interesting to make pledges to a person who's

588
00:55:42,720 --> 00:55:48,720
also doing drugs and drinking. And at that point, poor Kelly, because you think are my

589
00:55:48,720 --> 00:55:54,560
parents just in a battle of who's worse right now? And you're right. Like, were they taking

590
00:55:54,560 --> 00:55:58,820
turns apologizing to each other? It's hard to know. You don't really get that. So I don't

591
00:55:58,820 --> 00:56:04,560
remember when he says hurt and be hurt. Was he and he's saying that he wants to get off

592
00:56:04,560 --> 00:56:08,280
drugs, but he doesn't. Right. I mean, he still goes on for a while. Well, he certainly fails.

593
00:56:08,280 --> 00:56:12,960
I think we all, you know, he's basically saying I I'm going to kick this. I know I need to

594
00:56:12,960 --> 00:56:17,920
in these letters. Right. Like, I'm yeah, I'm going to stop and I need to get to the bottom

595
00:56:17,920 --> 00:56:25,560
of why I want to hurt and be hurt. I put in quotes. It's what he wrote. Yeah. So, you

596
00:56:25,560 --> 00:56:33,080
know, I thought it was interesting, an interesting perspective, an interesting view into that

597
00:56:33,080 --> 00:56:39,040
relationship where it's not as though he were writing to a wife who was a teetotaler. Right.

598
00:56:39,040 --> 00:56:43,400
And who didn't also she wasn't just not a teetotaler. She had a problem. Right. And

599
00:56:43,400 --> 00:56:47,080
so that that makes it interesting. And maybe to your point, it reflects that he wasn't

600
00:56:47,080 --> 00:56:51,400
super clear on how bad her problem was, that he was really still feeling very culpable

601
00:56:51,400 --> 00:57:00,100
and sort of singularly bad in that respect. Well, in my own past, I know when I feel guilty

602
00:57:00,100 --> 00:57:04,680
about something, I don't see the guilt in anybody else. I see I'm just trying to hide

603
00:57:04,680 --> 00:57:09,940
mine or. Yeah. And demonizing ourselves. Yeah. No one else can do wrong because I have to

604
00:57:09,940 --> 00:57:14,680
make excuses for what I've been doing. Right. I'm the wrong one. Yeah. And I thought this

605
00:57:14,680 --> 00:57:20,840
sort of this next piece kind of happened abruptly. From my perspective, they touch on Brenda's,

606
00:57:20,840 --> 00:57:26,200
you know, you know, drinking, et cetera. But then suddenly, Brenda's alcoholism is bad.

607
00:57:26,200 --> 00:57:32,520
Right. It's just really bad. And to the point where Kelly Carlin talks about how her father

608
00:57:32,520 --> 00:57:36,440
wouldn't allow Brenda to drive her anywhere, she couldn't drive her to school, she couldn't

609
00:57:36,440 --> 00:57:41,400
drive her places. So we're at a place right where, you know, she's not even daytime safe.

610
00:57:41,400 --> 00:57:47,400
And she talks about violence in the home erupting, which I thought was interesting. You know,

611
00:57:47,400 --> 00:57:52,040
considering he had, you know, their violence, his own mother fled from a violent home. And

612
00:57:52,040 --> 00:57:55,880
so things got pretty bad and pretty hectic, apparently. And, you know, she said her mom

613
00:57:55,880 --> 00:57:59,360
was an angry drunk and her dad was dealing with a lot of repressed anger, which doesn't

614
00:57:59,360 --> 00:58:04,880
sound sounds like a recipe for something that's not good. And then she she talks about this

615
00:58:04,880 --> 00:58:10,440
Hawaii vacation they went on. And there's this knife wielding incidents, which is wild.

616
00:58:10,440 --> 00:58:15,080
And I might not remember it exactly right. Was it her? Her mom had the knife, I think

617
00:58:15,080 --> 00:58:21,000
and was kind of going at George toward George with this knife. And she essentially just

618
00:58:21,000 --> 00:58:27,000
freaks out as enough she being Kelly and said she draws up this peace treaty and basically

619
00:58:27,000 --> 00:58:34,000
makes them promise to behave, which is just think about that. Like poor kid. Like there's

620
00:58:34,000 --> 00:58:38,760
this there's this term in psychology called the parentified child. And in that moment,

621
00:58:38,760 --> 00:58:42,760
she is truly that thing, right? She's having to suddenly be the adult in the room with

622
00:58:42,760 --> 00:58:48,440
her parents while on vacation. And then she had a couple Hudson vacations like that.

623
00:58:48,440 --> 00:58:56,960
Did you? If something went wrong, Dave Hudson erupted. Eruption. My stepmother was that

624
00:58:56,960 --> 00:59:06,360
person. My dad used to say, come with me. She's about to make a scene. And then she

625
00:59:06,360 --> 00:59:11,200
sort of speaks of Brenda's rock bottom, which was backing her car through the lobby of an

626
00:59:11,200 --> 00:59:16,880
inn in the Pacific Palisades. So is the scene it is the recordings of him screaming into

627
00:59:16,880 --> 00:59:22,560
the mic before that or after that? And then that and then that episode of Mike Douglas

628
00:59:22,560 --> 00:59:29,720
where George's mom comes on. Yeah, Mary Mary. Did you see what George Carlin looks like

629
00:59:29,720 --> 00:59:35,080
that? He looks terrible. Oh my God. I didn't recognize him. The drug use is so on. You

630
00:59:35,080 --> 00:59:40,560
can tell he is so strong out. So on. He's pale. He's a skinny guy to begin with. He's

631
00:59:40,560 --> 00:59:45,960
super. He's gone by George Carlin standards and like the dark, dark circles under his

632
00:59:45,960 --> 00:59:50,960
eyes. Yeah. It's sunken eyes. Yeah. Oh my God. It's just on him. I mean, that scene

633
00:59:50,960 --> 00:59:56,680
to me is probably the most awkward scene of the documentary for me. It is where you got

634
00:59:56,680 --> 01:00:04,160
him clearly. He's strung out. You can barely keep it together. Right. And then his mom

635
01:00:04,160 --> 01:00:11,480
for some reason, why his mom? Why? Why would Mike Douglas want his mom? And he doesn't

636
01:00:11,480 --> 01:00:17,000
look happy. He's not enjoying it. To me, he looks like just strung out and he can't. He's

637
01:00:17,000 --> 01:00:22,520
trying. He's in that state where he knows if he does anything, you're going to figure

638
01:00:22,520 --> 01:00:27,760
out that he's loaded. Right. So he's trying to keep very meticulous about it. And you

639
01:00:27,760 --> 01:00:32,280
know, he's like fiddling with his mom's mic for no reason. He's like fixing things. Yeah.

640
01:00:32,280 --> 01:00:36,600
And Michael Douglas is trying not to acknowledge that by talking to the mom and her mom is

641
01:00:36,600 --> 01:00:42,160
typical mom doesn't quite know the audience. Yeah. And she's so, you know, and I was, I

642
01:00:42,160 --> 01:00:45,080
mean, it strikes you because you realize like a lot of his background and his issues with

643
01:00:45,080 --> 01:00:52,880
his mother are also her constant not, you know, not approving of him. And then most of

644
01:00:52,880 --> 01:00:59,440
the banter is at his expense. Correct. Right. So even though it's soft banter at his expense,

645
01:00:59,440 --> 01:01:02,560
I just thought, oh, this is going to suck coming and going for him. Right. He's just

646
01:01:02,560 --> 01:01:08,080
like, I don't know how Mike Douglas, the talk show host navigates. And I give him credit

647
01:01:08,080 --> 01:01:13,160
for that because you got strung out George, you got crazy mom. It's like, this is entertainment.

648
01:01:13,160 --> 01:01:16,720
Right. And he's like wanting to talk about George. Service announcement. Yeah. And he's

649
01:01:16,720 --> 01:01:21,200
like, isn't he like, was he a good kid? And she's like, I've loved you for all my life.

650
01:01:21,200 --> 01:01:25,440
And that's not the question. She's not even thinking about the son that is the whole reason

651
01:01:25,440 --> 01:01:30,360
she's on the show. She just, it's Mary's moment. She's talking to Mike. Right. I just sort

652
01:01:30,360 --> 01:01:35,040
of, that struck me too. But what just blew me away is we, we see in this documentary,

653
01:01:35,040 --> 01:01:41,920
George Carlin from a small, sorry, not small, well, a small boy to the last stage of his

654
01:01:41,920 --> 01:01:46,720
life. And you can always recognize it's George Carlin, except for that one scene. I literally

655
01:01:46,720 --> 01:01:51,400
go, wait, who's that? Whoa. Right. Yeah. He looks bad. I'm overselling it for those who

656
01:01:51,400 --> 01:01:53,960
haven't seen it. He's a little bit the crypt keeper. He's the crypt keeper. Yeah. He just

657
01:01:53,960 --> 01:02:00,480
looks like, and you know, for, for, and it's, you know, on the Mary topic, the Mary Carlin

658
01:02:00,480 --> 01:02:05,640
topic, I could never really, I couldn't really wrap my head around why she came to visit,

659
01:02:05,640 --> 01:02:09,760
but apparently she came to visit. It seemed to me that she was coming to visit to help

660
01:02:09,760 --> 01:02:13,680
because of Brenda's alcoholism was so bad that George really didn't have somebody to

661
01:02:13,680 --> 01:02:20,800
help with Kelly. But what she did was arrive and just light a flame to everything, which

662
01:02:20,800 --> 01:02:24,920
you'd have to know, like talk about rock and hard place. If you're reaching out to your

663
01:02:24,920 --> 01:02:29,680
mother, who was just no source of, of comfort or a soft place to land, you got nothing.

664
01:02:29,680 --> 01:02:35,680
Like you've run out of ideas at that point. They never talk about, they, they never touch

665
01:02:35,680 --> 01:02:44,600
on Brenda's parents or that family. But, so she comes out, Mary arrives and then essentially

666
01:02:44,600 --> 01:02:48,240
they're at the, you know, this is the rock bottom of Brenda's alcoholism and Mary, Mary

667
01:02:48,240 --> 01:02:54,720
just enables it and just pours her drinks. It's wild. Like she's, she's given her drinks

668
01:02:54,720 --> 01:03:01,640
and then just filling her with derision about George. Just talk about taking your bad situation

669
01:03:01,640 --> 01:03:05,720
and making it worse. Like almost voluntarily. It's, it's just, it feels like self-flagellation

670
01:03:05,720 --> 01:03:10,600
bringing Mary into the, but then, you know, thankfully, so then Brenda goes into the hospital

671
01:03:10,600 --> 01:03:15,920
for 21 day treatment. Seems to work, which I thought, wow, 21 days without like sort

672
01:03:15,920 --> 01:03:22,200
of the model we're working with today. She cleans up and then says, I'm not coming home

673
01:03:22,200 --> 01:03:26,540
unless you get that mother out of there, which I, you know, he, his wife once again ends

674
01:03:26,540 --> 01:03:31,440
up being the exact thing he needs. Cause she sort of shakes off her alcoholism and goes,

675
01:03:31,440 --> 01:03:36,520
Oh, I'm clear headed now. Get that woman out of there. Right. And he couldn't be happier.

676
01:03:36,520 --> 01:03:43,040
Who wanted her there? Right. And basically Kelly retells this story. Like, I mean, I,

677
01:03:43,040 --> 01:03:46,600
in my mind, I was seeing this scene where he's literally just like hauling her out and

678
01:03:46,600 --> 01:03:55,320
throwing her into the car and just like burning rubber to LAX. So there, there we exit Mary

679
01:03:55,320 --> 01:04:01,960
Carlin and to everyone's great joy. And it's at this stage or somewhere around this time

680
01:04:01,960 --> 01:04:07,800
in his life where he really, his career starts to whine. And at this point he's the first

681
01:04:07,800 --> 01:04:11,360
guest host of SNL ever, which is really a feather in your cap when you consider what

682
01:04:11,360 --> 01:04:15,920
SNL became. But it was happening at a time where he was really kind of yesterday's news,

683
01:04:15,920 --> 01:04:19,280
right? He was sort of starting to slip out of the zeitgeist.

684
01:04:19,280 --> 01:04:27,520
What caught me was I was thinking, well, okay, George Carlin's out of, you know, out of trend,

685
01:04:27,520 --> 01:04:32,320
must be the eighties, but no, we're just talking mid seventies here, right? Like 75, 76. Yeah.

686
01:04:32,320 --> 01:04:35,400
And you're right. That is with Cheech and Chong. That's when we got ahold of our big

687
01:04:35,400 --> 01:04:39,500
brother's Cheech and Chong album. Played them until they melted.

688
01:04:39,500 --> 01:04:44,100
That is what a Cheech and Chong is where I discovered comedy albums. Like knowing those

689
01:04:44,100 --> 01:04:49,320
were a thing and like a friend, like a friend's older sister had it. And I up his nose, it

690
01:04:49,320 --> 01:04:54,640
goes. I mean, it's like the first comedy bit I ever heard on a record was Cheech and Chong

691
01:04:54,640 --> 01:04:56,960
up his nose, it goes. And I just thought it was so funny.

692
01:04:56,960 --> 01:05:00,720
I remember sister Mary elephant. Remember that one? The teacher.

693
01:05:00,720 --> 01:05:03,920
I don't now it makes me want to go back and listen. It doesn't make you want to listen.

694
01:05:03,920 --> 01:05:06,840
But a fun fact about the first Saturday night live.

695
01:05:06,840 --> 01:05:10,680
We need to come up with a name for these. The musical. Yes.

696
01:05:10,680 --> 01:05:16,040
There was two of them, Billy Preston and Janice Ian.

697
01:05:16,040 --> 01:05:21,240
Janice Ian of the at 17. 17. Well done.

698
01:05:21,240 --> 01:05:26,920
I learned the truth at 17. And Billy Preston, known as the fifth Beatle, he sang

699
01:05:26,920 --> 01:05:30,520
Nothing from Nothing. Leaves nothing, right?

700
01:05:30,520 --> 01:05:33,720
Nothing from nothing, leaves nothing. Right?

701
01:05:33,720 --> 01:05:40,600
Go, go have some. At this point, he asks now, ready? Wait

702
01:05:40,600 --> 01:05:47,360
for it. Tony Orlando for a job. Now, Tony Orlando is interviewed for this.

703
01:05:47,360 --> 01:05:50,920
And I was like, Tony Orlando is alive. I know, right?

704
01:05:50,920 --> 01:05:55,160
It kind of gave me joy because I also loved that variety show.

705
01:05:55,160 --> 01:05:58,280
Around forever. Forever.

706
01:05:58,280 --> 01:06:02,400
And again, if we, you know, under the same theme of like, if you're, if you're asking

707
01:06:02,400 --> 01:06:06,400
your, you know, terrible mother to come help you, what, like, where are you at in terms

708
01:06:06,400 --> 01:06:10,360
of your wits end? I also thought this about the Tony Orlando

709
01:06:10,360 --> 01:06:13,880
asking Tony for a job because he hated the mainstream.

710
01:06:13,880 --> 01:06:16,000
Right. He had this aversion.

711
01:06:16,000 --> 01:06:19,560
And so he'd really pivoted to save himself and buy himself some time.

712
01:06:19,560 --> 01:06:23,200
I really feel like, right? He had, you know, he had been the guy sort

713
01:06:23,200 --> 01:06:28,040
of changing the form and suddenly he wasn't. And now he needed to pay the bills.

714
01:06:28,040 --> 01:06:30,440
And so he's on the Tony Orlando show, which I just had to crack up.

715
01:06:30,440 --> 01:06:34,680
I don't remember him from it. I just remember Dawn.

716
01:06:34,680 --> 01:06:38,240
I just remember Dawn. I thought it was, no, it's Dawn's because

717
01:06:38,240 --> 01:06:39,320
there's two of them. Right.

718
01:06:39,320 --> 01:06:41,720
But isn't it Tony Orlando and Dawn? Yeah.

719
01:06:41,720 --> 01:06:45,560
Yeah. That's so funny.

720
01:06:45,560 --> 01:06:48,320
And that actually brings us to the end of part one.

721
01:06:48,320 --> 01:06:52,200
It is a two part documentary. Come on, Rick Moranis doing George Carlin.

722
01:06:52,200 --> 01:06:55,040
That's brilliant. I don't care if it's making fun of him.

723
01:06:55,040 --> 01:06:58,080
I love that. Listen, I feel bad because I don't remember

724
01:06:58,080 --> 01:07:00,000
it. I don't remember this moment.

725
01:07:00,000 --> 01:07:01,960
There's green grapes. How come there's no green wine?

726
01:07:01,960 --> 01:07:05,120
Oh, that's right. Red wine, white wine.

727
01:07:05,120 --> 01:07:10,240
We might have to cut in that. That's not funny.

728
01:07:10,240 --> 01:07:12,000
We might have to. Oh, how can you forget that?

729
01:07:12,000 --> 01:07:16,760
That's what George Carlin, there's the note saying he's, you know, he's no longer relevant.

730
01:07:16,760 --> 01:07:17,760
Right. 100%.

731
01:07:17,760 --> 01:07:21,520
And even Cheech Marin goes, oh, look, he's doing jokes about peas.

732
01:07:21,520 --> 01:07:23,880
He's done. And that's when he goes, all right, well,

733
01:07:23,880 --> 01:07:26,880
I'm going to show the world. I'm going to kick all their asses.

734
01:07:26,880 --> 01:07:29,480
Yeah. Which is not part of the seven words.

735
01:07:29,480 --> 01:07:33,520
I do know what you're talking about now. You know what?

736
01:07:33,520 --> 01:07:36,520
I actually was thinking that Rick Moranis was one of the comedians who was weighing

737
01:07:36,520 --> 01:07:40,480
in, but you are referring to a bit. A bit on SCTV.

738
01:07:40,480 --> 01:07:43,920
There's a bit on SCTV where they're making fun of George Carlin.

739
01:07:43,920 --> 01:07:44,920
Correct. Absolutely.

740
01:07:44,920 --> 01:07:47,680
Okay. Now, when they talk about things that are over,

741
01:07:47,680 --> 01:07:50,800
one of them being George Carlin, and then Cheech Marin saying, look, he's making fun,

742
01:07:50,800 --> 01:07:52,960
he's making jokes with peas. He's done.

743
01:07:52,960 --> 01:07:55,840
That's wild. And that's when episode one ends saying,

744
01:07:55,840 --> 01:07:57,400
I'll show them. Right.

745
01:07:57,400 --> 01:07:59,720
Well, I think he says, F them. Right.

746
01:07:59,720 --> 01:08:05,560
Right. Which is one of the seven words.

747
01:08:05,560 --> 01:08:09,800
Podumentary is executive produced by me, Melanie Dark, and produced by both Jim Hudson and

748
01:08:09,800 --> 01:08:13,640
I with the support of our fearless production coordinator, Kate Dark.

749
01:08:13,640 --> 01:08:18,720
The podcast is recorded and engineered at New Vine Music Studios in sunny Santa Monica.

750
01:08:18,720 --> 01:08:23,440
And our theme song is the 1950s movie intermission classic, Let's All Go to the Lobby, licensed

751
01:08:23,440 --> 01:08:27,160
courtesy of Phil Mack Studios. You can find more episodes of this podcast

752
01:08:27,160 --> 01:08:32,680
and smash that subscribe button at podumentary.co. That's podumentary.co.

753
01:08:32,680 --> 01:08:36,920
We'd also love to hear your take on this documentary. You can use our website's recorded message

754
01:08:36,920 --> 01:08:40,960
feature to do that. And we might even feature your message in a future episode.

755
01:08:40,960 --> 01:08:44,560
If voicemail isn't your thing, you can shout out your comments, criticisms, or documentary

756
01:08:44,560 --> 01:08:51,200
requests on Instagram, Facebook, and TikTok at at podumentary and on Twitter at at podumentarypod.

757
01:08:51,200 --> 01:08:55,560
If straight up old fashioned emails more your speed, drop us a line using hey at podumentary.co.

758
01:08:55,560 --> 01:08:59,000
And if you've gotten this far, you're one of us. See you next time.